would the allies have won ww2 without america

The United States is a country of machines. However, even with lack of US presence in the war, Germany would still need to keep some presence in this Atlantic Wall of theirs. When landings become inevitable, he diverts the landings to Italy, calling it soft underbelly of Axis. We took up first the question of OVERLORD which we both agreed was the most important problem now before the world and about which we are both anxious owing to the very doubtful attitude of the British Prime Minister. Instead of the four Allied powers the United States, Great Britain, France, and the Soviet Union then standing together in a final Allied Victory Parade in a defeated Berlin in September 1944, the Germans could have celebrated the defeat of the British, marching through London and Moscow as they did Paris. In contrast, people in Eastern Front were ordered to die where they stood. During World War II the Soviet Union received large amounts of aid from the Western world in the form of supplies and military intervention, both of which were declared to have been irrelevant for the Soviet Unions victory over Nazi Germany by Soviet historians. What were the 3 reasons the US entered WW1? On: July 7, 2022. This particular C-47 was sent to the Far North and spent the war conducting reconnaissance and weather-monitoring missions over the Kara Sea. But things suddenly take a weird turn after North Africa: Landings in Western Europe keep getting delayed despite all pressures from Soviets. Would The Allies Have Won Ww2 Without Russia? During World War I not to mention wars in European wars through the ages Germany didn't really fight alone. Archived post. WebIn the 20032004 Captain America story arc Cap Lives (Captain America Vol. Germanys resumption of submarine attacks on passenger and merchant ships in 1917 became the primary motivation behind Wilsons decision to lead the United States into World War I. It is no exaggeration to say that America won the war abroad and the peace at home at the same time. When the war ended, almost 33 percent of all the Red Army's vehicles had been provided through Lend-Lease. After the fall of France in June On December 8, 1941, one day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States declared war on Japan. Almost all of the 23 victims of the attack on Friday Many contributed to relief efforts; others volunteered as ambulance drivers or nurses, or even as pilots and soldiers. These territorial claims included the entire Istrian peninsula and northern Dalmatian coast and adjacent islands in the Adriatic Sea as well as a protectorate over Albania, all of which ended up being annexedfollowing the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia in April 1941. Such machines were of higher quality than analogues produced in the Soviet Union, which made a significant contribution to boosting Soviet industrial production. How many U.S. troops lost their lives in ww1? "In order to really assess the significance of Lend-Lease for the Soviet victory, you only have to imagine how the Soviet Union would have had to fight if there had been no Lend-Lease aid," Sokolov wrote. Then there is the fact that Germany lacked the winter clothing for its Army during that first terrible Soviet winter. Individual Americans supported one side or the other, although the majority were sympathetic to the Allies. Instead, Hitler strong-armed Hocha to sign a decree authorizing the entry of German troops into his nation effectively ending Czech independence. Having to only fight a one-front war against the Soviet Union might have enabled the Poles to hold out for a few months instead of a few weeks against the Soviet onslaught perhaps resulting in a few hundred thousand more Red Army casualties. Hypothetical Axis victory in World War II - Wikipedia For asking casual questions about History. It was the job of the ordinary German to perish in Eastern Front where he stood. By June 1944, Soviets were already positioning for their drive into Germany, as can be seen from the state of Eastern Front at that date: Just a month after Normandy, Red Army was already pushing into Germany. The outcome could have been quite different. And the US's wartime economy still had room to spool up even more. Also the liberty ships were built mainly for the US government and weren't in full production until late 42 (after the u-boats had been beaten by bletchly park). And even if Atlantic War would have been more destructive to Britain and possibly not even won, Britains presence as a naval power would not diminish, and hence the risk of invasion of Western Europe would not go away. The exhausted Allies would have had to negotiate some kind of settlement with Central Power forces occupying almost all of what is now Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic republics in the east; most of Romania and Yugoslavia in Southern Europe, as well as a bit of Italy; and almost all of Belgium and most of northeast, 5 Reasons the United States Entered World War One. But it would Perhaps my original question should have been "What would have happened in WWII if there had been no Spam?". Had Germany been on an actual wartime economy from 1939 things could have been vastly different. While the Japanese did draw away British resources to the Far East, which included the Commonwealth forces of Australia and New Zealand, as well as the Indian Army, this really didn't benefit the Germans all that much. Web1.7K views, 156 likes, 1 loves, 4 comments, 22 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Dark Documentaries: Japan's Most Desperate WW2 Attempt to Destroy the US Air Forces I assume that since Overlord hasn't happened that most or at least many of the German troops garrisoning France are available to be redeployed to Munich, Budapest, or anywhere else the Germans care to send them. The German Army was practically at the gates of Moscow in late 1941. Siberia, is not even an option to consider. Germany lost the First World War largely because it couldn't fight a sustained two-front war. A major question, a major discussion topic. On April 23, 1947, this C-37 was forced to make an emergency landing with 36 people on board near the village of Volochanka on the Taimyr Peninsula. without On March 12, 1943, the plane was given to the Soviet Air Force in Fairbanks, Alaska, and given the registration USSR-N238. With Great Britain in the war it meant Germany was dragged into various side campaigns from Greece to North Africa. The British and Soviet war efforts were supported strongly by lend lease weapons from the US. Finland was only in the war to fight the Soviet Union, while the same was largely true of Romania and Hungary. The Lend-Lease program also sent tons of factory equipment and machine tools to the Soviet Union, including more than 38,000 lathes and other metal-working tools. But right before the Normandy landings, this region (France, Atlantic Wall) was still considered a holiday region by German army, and sons, relatives of notables, party figures were sent there rather than Eastern Front as one old BBC documentary so bluntly put it. BBC NEWS | Europe | Who won World War II? Copyright 2006-2022 Historum. Sure but this not what the OP specified so the answer remains yes the Allies could win without direct US involvement or even with the pre Lend-Lease levels of support if it happens early in the war. What if D-Day had failed WebIt must be baldly stated: Germany would have won World War I had the U.S. Army not intervened in France in 1918.The French and British were barely hanging on in 1918. Germany built no heavy bombers and lacked any truly effective long range aircraft. Could the Allies have won without US ww1? Not enough men. But it would also take longer and cost more loss of lives. In World War II, the three great Allied powersGreat Britain, the United States, and the Soviet Unionformed a Grand Alliance that was the key to victory. Geographic feasibility. That bogged down the men and material that could have been used in the invasion of the Soviet Union. Would the allies still have won World War 2 without an US The root cause of world war II is industrial and imperialist circles in the west fostering and backing fascist movements, When we look into the reality on the ground circa the time period when Operation Sea Lion was supposed to, Without demeaning the sacrifice of those who fought in the ranks of the British, lets do a simple review: In. The Lusitania. Most Russians believe the Soviet military would have been able to win World War II without the efforts of the U.S. or its allies, a Defeat of Germany in World War II Was Possible Without U.S. The First World War saw two factions of "great powers" square off. The same applies to their contribution in forcing the Germans to leave most heavy artillery in the Reich as anti-aircraft weapons, preventing them from being used as anti-tank weapons in the East. When World War II started, America was isolationist and the Soviet Union collaborationist. I already posted a similar thread about US involvement in WWI. WebIn 1941-2 we started to lose shipping to U boats faster than we could build them so we would eventually have brought to starvation without the US Liberty ships. The Great Debate | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans Though Germans would rightfully conclude that at that point a British invasion would not have much impact, therefore reduce their divisions in the West quite a lot. Many of the arguments are colored either by existing national or social biases, and many of them are colored by propaganda be it World War II propaganda, be it Cold War propaganda. Lend-Lease trucks and jeeps put the Russian Army on wheels for the first time ever while US food (including, famously, spam)kept the Russian population going. This would have reduced investment in the US arms industry and thus slowed it growth or even caused plants to close. In World War II, the Allies outfought the Axis on land, in the air, and at sea. In regard to combat balance, we see many disasters in Western Front as well. Much contention. At the same time, Italian dictator Benito Mussolini could have made demands for France and Britain to honor their promises to Italy for more Yugoslav territory in return for entering World War One on the side of the Allies. With farm labour cut to the bone, to permit the maximum concentration of manpower on the Red Army and on armaments production, only those who worked received adequate rations. However it doesnt seem to be critical to the wars result. After demanding Slovakia declare independence, Czech President Emil Hocha traveled to Germany to meet with Hitler and request a German guarantee of the Czech Republic. Most visibly, the United States provided the Soviet Union with more than 400,000 jeeps and trucks, 14,000 aircraft, 8,000 tractors and construction vehicles, and 13,000 battle tanks. In addition, almost half of all the rails used by the Soviet Union during the war came through Lend-Lease. Politics latest updates: Half of Britons think Tories will lose seats All kinds of approaches exist for this topic, as well as all kinds of counter arguments to all kinds of propositions. Germany's defeat came about from a number of much larger factors. American aid also provided 4.5 million tons of food, 1.5 million blankets, and 15 million pairs of boots. Copyright 2023 Center for the National Interest All Rights Reserved. WebAmerica's noteable allies in World War II were the USSR, Great Britain (and all her commonwealths, including New Zealand, Canada, Australia, etc. And as it happened in the real life, that means the fall of the entire German south flank in East and the loss of the Balkans. The Big Three | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans WebA quick look at the strategic setup, relative war production and technology level of countries seems to suggest that Ww2 could have been won without United States. And not surprisingly, not only the few German forces which took over Italys defense from Italian armies defended all of Italy easily and a lot of lives were lost in hilly Italian countryside, but also even at the end of the war the forces in Italy were not able to move out of soft underbelly of Axis towards French hinterland, leave aside Germany. On the map below, the line I've drawn from Central Austria, up around Prague, down towards Budapest, and back to Trieste is about 700 miles. "In a hypothetical battle one-on-one between the U.S.S.R and Germany, without the help of Lend-Lease and without the diversion of significant forces of the Luftwaffe and the German Navy and the diversion of more than one-quarter of its land forces in the fight against Britain and the United States, Stalin could hardly have beaten Hitler," Sokolov wrote in an essay for RFE/RL's Russian Service. Nikita Khruschev, who later became Soviet Premier, was aware of this and noted in his memoirs: "How could we have advanced from Stalingrad and Kursk on to Berlin without American aid and foodstuffs? Whether Stalin would have still invaded and annexed the Baltic States, eastern Finland, eastern Poland and northeastern Romania from 19391940 is unclear. Ukraine war latest: Boy, 6, cries as sister killed in Russian attack This, of course, was the ultimate objective of Chamberlains accommodationist policy of Nazi Germany all along. Less than six months later, France and Britain were dragged into the war. on politics, society, foreign policy, philosophy and tech. At these loss rates, the Red Army was still far more dependent upon Lend-Lease armour than it was willing to admit, and it did not have enough excess production to fully outfit its best units with T-34s until mid-1943. On February 24, 1943, a Douglas C-47 Skytrain transport aircraft with serial number 42-32892 rolled out of a factory in Long Beach, California, and was handed over to the U.S. Air Force. It was quite well equipped with 9,248 tanks, 6,584 artillery pieces and. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The Short History Of The Great Patriotic War, also from 1948, acknowledged the Lend-Lease shipments, but concluded: "Overall this assistance was not significant enough to in any way exert a decisive influence over the course of the Great Patriotic War. Peace with Nazi Germany would have opened the door to a major Anglo-French military intervention in the Russo-Finnish War consisting of 150,000-300,000 troops, which might have enabled the Finns to hold out until spring 1941 when Operation Barbarossa beganif not retake lost territory. This might have led to the curious prospect of Nazi Germany, France and Britain fighting on the same side, however briefly, in a war against the Soviet Union. Germany had the military On May 11, 1947, 27 people were rescued, having spent nearly three weeks in the icebound wreck. Germany had the military potential to defeat France and could have likely forced Britain to make peace, but with a Navy less than one-sixth the size of Britains, it had no means of attacking U.S. territory, let alone defeating the U.S. military. "It was not just some piece of scrap metal. On the Soviet side, the Western Front still had 328 tanks left in thirteen tank brigades and the 1st Guards Motorized Rifle Division (1GRMD) by the end of October: thirty-three KV-1, 175 T-34, forty-three BT, fifty T-26 and thirty-two T-60. The Poles would likely have accepted their peace offer after the Soviets invaded Poland on September 17 in order to defend Poland from the all-out Soviet invasion and planned Soviet annexation of nearly two-thirds of Polish territory under the original Hitler-Stalin Pact. The fact that the US never hit production capacity in ww2 is just insane. Copyright 2023 Center for the National Interest All Rights Reserved. Asked by: Quincy Bins. We have seen a hundred times, especially in American cinema, references to how the help of the USA was indispensable for the allied victory in Europe. At the end of the war, the disparage was far greater Soviets ran over all the elite crack troops Japanese crammed into Manchuria and trusted quite a lot, and they ran over them in justonemonth. In early 1915, Germany introduced a policy of unrestricted submarine warfare in the Atlantic. 21st Army Group could advance from Venice/Trieste to Vienna and Prague, but there's no one on their flanks. Fact: Adolf Hitler Could Have Won World War II What would have happened if the United States didnt enter WWII? An estimated 25 million Soviet citizens perished in the titanic conflict with Nazi Germany between June 1941 and May 1945. This gave Poland the footing it needed to refuse all of Hitlers subsequent attempts to negotiate the return of this Polish occupied German city. The notion that Britain could have survived long term with the US's aid is total rubbish. Would Russia have won ww2 without the US? Would The Allies Have Won Ww1 Without America? It is our living history. My object was to cheer up Harry and give him my ideas as to how he was to hold the president in line if he couldI have no doubt of the British people doing it. 'We Would Have Lost': Did U.S. Lend-Lease Aid Tip The Balance By September 1944, we see Allies only coming to German border: The disproportionate advance of Allies in Western Front in the late stages of the war compared to the advance in Eastern Front after this point is due to German staff trying to prevent a Soviet takeover of entire Germany, and preferring an occupation by the other Allies. We're dealing with alternate history. Allies couldnt have won WW2 without full US support Allies could have won WW2 with US material aid but without US manpower Results are only viewable after voting. Without US help Britain would The only viable route seems to be towards the West from Northern Italy, from a narrow region towards France. We'd really have had to fight them on the beaches & landing grounds, and the western front would have had to have been opened from Ireland. But when examined by looking past all these ideological and social biases and historical baggage, one faces a rather unconventional conclusion: A quick look at the strategic setup, relative war production and technology level of countries seems to suggest that Ww2 could have been won without United States. It had Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria on its side. They were rapidly obsoleted and were relegated to back line duties (reserve, regional back line defense, training) towards 1943 due to speed of technological advancement on both sides. So in World War One, I think fresh American troops helped change the outcome. The war might have ended in 1915 or 1916 with a negotiated peace Had the German invasion of Russia occurred in other climatic conditions, and with the Japanese army attacking in the eastern region, perhaps the result would have been different. Their aircraft carriers are mostly converted from civilian ships during interwar years. Kennedy says that most historians agree that American entry into World War I tipped the scales against Germany and that without the participation of the United States the Allies would have lost, defined as having to make a compromise peace with the Germans largely on German terms. Things werent going well for the. Perhaps if it hadn't wasted time in securing Greece after Italy bungled that invasion, Germany could have launched the invasion of the Soviet Union a bit earlier. Which still means the answer to the OP is yes, the Allies could win. Under Lend-Lease, the United States provided more than one-third of all the explosives used by the Soviet Union during the war. By the onset of the great depression, Americans no longer cared to talk or think about the great war; even veterans felt that way. World War II in Europe was Germany and Italy, which was joined by Finland, Hungary, Romania, and to some extent Bulgaria. More than 20,000 Katyusha mobile multiple-rocket launchers were mounted on the chassis of American Studebaker trucks. What were strength estimates of German forces in Budapest and Munich? The Lend-Lease program also provided more than 35,000 radio sets and 32,000 motorcycles. War of 1812. The United States later declared war on German ally Austria-Hungary on December 7, 1917. However, it is likely he would have invaded all of those nations at some point during the 1940s regardless of what Hitler did or did not do since his massive expansion of the Red Army was completed by June 1941, by which time the Soviet Union boasted seven times as many tanks and four times as many combat aircraft as Nazi Germany. There would have been effects life in britain and russia would have been less plesent and food less plentiful. the first thing to point out is that those who think the UK would have colapsed and been invaded are just wrong. So Lend Lease should not have been a factor in this analysis. Overcoming massive defeats and colossal losses over the first 18 months of the war, the Red Army was able to reorganize and rebuild to form a juggernaut that marched all the way to Berlin. Britain, and probably France as well, would have likely pressured the Poles to accept such a reasonable compromise proposal and informed them they would not support Poland militarily if Poland rejected it just as they told Czech leaders after Munich. Would Japan have surrendered without the atomic bombings? However, the overall 71 exchange ratio between Soviet and German tank losses was inconsistent with the Red Army gaining any kind of superiority over the Wehrmachts panzer forces. In 1941-2 we started to lose shipping to U boats faster than we could build them so we would eventually have brought to starvation without the US Liberty ships. September 1 marked the eightieth anniversary of the outbreak of World War II, which cost the lives of an estimated fifty to sixty million people and was the most terrible war in world history. It may not display this or other websites correctly. "If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war," he wrote in his memoirs. Though this indeed tied some German forces, the forces were not anything which could be compared to what was being thrown to Eastern Front, with one notable panzer group being stationed ner Pas de Calais (Hitlers folly), and most of the preparation taking the form of elaborate fortifications that were called Atlantic Wall prepared mainly by Rommel. If Zhukov was able to destroy a veteran Japanese army in ~4 months in Khalkin Gol, they could easily hold them off with less divisions and resources. Japanese staff knew this, hence the plan for war against US was a quick strike which would cripple a decent amount of US Navy and therefore hopefully force a quick, favorable peace. Roosevelt had caved in to Churchills delaying tactics on the invasion before, and now all concerned, from Hopkins to Marshall to Leahy, were worried it might happen again. By this time US aid was already flowing in, and the victory came afterSecond Battle of El Alamein, after US themselves joined. 117,000The armies of the Central Powers mobilised 25 million soldiers and 3.5 million of them died.World War 1 casualties. If Hitler had accepted Czech President Emil Hachas request to make the Czech Republic a German protectorate without actually occupying it with German forces, then he would not have been in violation of the Munich Pact. After Hitler became increasingly sidelined, this became a blunt policy, as you would see from the personal stories of relatives of (German) Quorans in regard to the late stages of war, and how many of them were ferried back to West so that they could surrender to the other Allies. WebWe would like to show you a description here but the site wont allow us. ww1 - the British had mastered combined arms warfare and the Allies would have won but been willing to cut a less one-sided deal to bring it to an end. Thus, Hitler could have achieved the last of his territorial objectives without war, with the exception of those pertaining to the Soviet Union. One look at the map of southern Europe easily tells even people with non-military education that there is nothing soft about that location at all Italy is hilly, rough terrain, and where Italy connects to Europe is even worse impassable Alps totally clog the north, and beyond Alps there are many more difficult obstacles like Black Forest, or Yugoslavian hilly countryside. WebThe Big Three. But the Soviet Union was never alone: Months before the United States formally entered the war, it had already begun providing massive military and economic assistance to its Soviet ally through the Lend-Lease program. Also see r/History or r/AskHistorians. In addition, the Lend-Lease program propped up the Soviet railway system, which played a fundamental role in moving and supplying troops. W. Without the need to fight in the Atlantic; to transport large amounts of troops, equipment, and supplies across the entire continent; and the necessity to defend against Allied bombing, Germany could have massively reduced its U-boat, locomotive, and anti-aircraft gun and ammunition production and converted at least part of these capacities into the production of more aircraft and equipment for land warfare. Germany invaded France with more horses than Napoleon had used in 1812! Rommel had scarce manpower and supplies at his disposal, yet he made good use of what he had, and Britain succeeded in stopping Germans only with amassing of massive resources and manpower in firstFirst Battle of El Alamein. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. Quora - A place to share knowledge and better understand the world But when World War II has considered it is really Germany and Japan against most of the world. Even with everything noted above, Germany and its European partners could have still won the war were it not for Germany's declaration of war on the United States on December 11, 1941. Hitler could have accepted Britains generous offer and scheduled the conference for late 1938 or early 1939 rather than foolishly violating the Munich Pact in March 1939. So, until 1944 summer, Soviets were practically alone in Europe. It is also possibleand perhaps even likelythat without the promise of Allied military support, Poland would have agreed to cede the rest of West Prussia and perhaps even East Upper Silesia, but not Posen, to Nazi Germany in order to avoid war. 'We Would Have Lost': Did U.S. Lend-Lease Aid Tip The Balance In Soviet Fight Against Nazi Germany? Even if Japan wisely realized this (and it seems they did, in Khalkin Gol) and refrained from pushing towards USSR, Soviets would still keep divisions across the border even if themselves did not advance that would force Japan to keep defenses and divisions here, reducing their war effort elsewhere. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. There is no plausible reason to believe that Romania wouldn't change sides once Red Army was at its borders. Unfortunately, his offer was ignored by Allied leaders who proceeded to declare war the following day. After the defeat of Imperial Russia, which came as the result of the Bolshevik revolution in 1917, the German Army was able to move vast quantities of men to the western front and launched a final offensive in the spring of 1918.

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